Chris Guggenheim of ClearJet on Air Shipping

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UPS gave me an email, 5-day cancellation notice, after I had spent $55 million in 2019, and this was in August and it said literally said in there 'cause account's not profitable enough. Hi everyone, my name is Joe Spisak, and I am the CEO of Fulfill.com. And today I have with me Chris Guggenheim, who is the founder and CEO of ClearJet. And I am crazy excited to be talking with you today, Chris.

You are one of the OGs of our industry. Maybe we just start off by having you tell us a little bit more about yourself and then we can kind of lead up into how you started ClearJet. Awesome Joe. Thanks for hosting today. This is awesome. Yeah, so my about myself. So you know, like I've been in ecommerce since 97. You know, I was one of the earlier adopters of trying to figure out how to sell stuff online.

You know, at the time, you know, I was 18 and in college and I met a music artist named Pat Green, he's a Texas, you know, Texas singer songwriter. He was you know, a few years out of Texas Tech and I met him at in Waco, Texas and I was a computer science major. I'd moved down from north to Panhandle and I had this conversation with him just randomly at a free concert.

And I built his website. So I built PatGreen.com and then I met Willie Nelson, right? You know, all these people were all touring together, you know, a around the state and I met actually Willie's granddaughter. Just randomly as well. And she's like, Hey, I love what you're doing for Pat. Can you, you know, can you help us with our website? And I'm like, Willie Nelson, heck yeah, let's go.

This is awesome. And it was cool because back then I was just really trying to help put up a website. It wasn't there was no ecommerce business originally. And as I started watching other music artists, there were just cool stuff happening online. Dave Matthews Band had launched the warehouse which was his fan club and I was like, Oh, that's a cool idea. You know, artists should totally have a fan club, you know. And you know, you remember before that it's like the Selena fan club, which was paper in the mail.

It's like, it's cool, but like, yeah, you know, the internet's here, right? So I started building their websites and then their ecommerce sites so to help them sell at the time it's like you know your basic your T-shirts and all this you know stuff people like to wear hats, things like that. And then it got into I realized we could sell anything. So we started selling concert tickets.

And so we would be selling, you know, you go to WillieNelson.com and you'd go on this tour schedule, you hit buy tickets and we built our own ticketing page and started kind of controlling a lot of in this is like the early days of like direct-to-fan models where we realized the value was, you know, remember this is there's no Facebook. This is MySpace. There's some early days where it was like, hey, being able to communicate with your fans is a big deal.

And then being able to sell to them and then all that kind of encompassing under a retailer, so or under a in this case a band. So that was where I got into ecommerce, was just trying to help grow a fan based business model for the music industry. Man, what a crazy origin story to get you into ecommerce, working with huge artists like that, building out sites and fan bases and helping Willie Nelson sell.

It's just, it's an amazing start to the journey. And so keep taking us through because you know, working with those artists and helping them establish those additional lines of revenue and get them into ecommerce really led you into starting your next company, which was OneLive. So take us on that next step of the journey and tell us just a little bit more about OneLive. Yeah, man, I tell you, I had a blast.

You know, when I first started the company was All Access Today was where I kind of this company I created at the like kind of post college. And that was at the time I was going direct to artists, so artists one, two, three and helping them build their online businesses. So I had sold All Access Today in '09 and 2012 I started OneLive, which it what it one of the things I took away from the prior learnings was man, there's a lot of big companies out there that have a lot of rights.

So think of record labels, think of merchandisers, think of promoters, Live Nation, AEG Anschutz, and all these people that were that really weren't good at technology, but they had big, big rights. And so I created this idea, well, I'll do the same thing I did before on an artist level, but I'll do it on a rights holder level. So they would hire OneLive to build it and that's why OneLive has, you know, over 1,200 Shopify Plus stores now.

And that was really by us kind of being I almost call it like the we're the plumbing behind it. So it's like, hey, I wanna launch a store, I wanna launch a fan club, I wanna and you're you know, if you're Live Nation, you have hundreds and hundreds of accounts. If you're Sony Music, the same thing. If you're Warner Music and so we became like the I'd call like the operators behind the scenes.

We'd build the website, the fan club, the ecommerce site, the ticketing system, and then a whole business model. We even did live concerts for downloads. We did physical USB drives to record your live concert. So all these like innovative ideas with what how OneLive was created and our customers were started music and then we got into NASCAR and we had sports teams and NFL teams and NBA teams and and I obviously most people know my early story, Shopify.

I meet the founder of Shopify and Loren Padelford which was the head of Plus. It was a brand new idea that they were launching this enterprise version of a hosted SaaS and we were like, we were pretty skeptical at first because we were you know, we kinda hosted everything ourselves before and artists asked for crazy stuff and we were like, Man, this is gonna be hard to do custom stuff on someone's platform and they kinda assured us that this that the world's changing and you have a lot of access and so that was a big unlock for us.

It allows us to scale. That was one of my favorite things is being one of the early adopters of Shopify, specifically around Plus, we got to kind of be at the ground level, asked to tell 'em everything we wanted. And you know, we had a lot of artists. And you know, that was what when they came to Austin they like, Hey, how do we get Michael Jackson and Bon Jovi and all these artists?

We're like, well, you just had to give us a really good technology stack that they want, you know, and we're gonna be the operators if you will. So but that's how OneLive was created. And our whole premise was instead of having to reinvent the wheel every time you add an artist, we created this like repeatable processes. Do you still keep a like a hyper brand model but not have to like reinvent the business every time you built a new site.

6:52

Yeah, that is incredible. And I believe at one point in time, OneLive was the number one tech partner for Shopify. Maybe they still are, but just incredible all around. Okay, so we kind of went through these first few stages of your journey. Tell us how did the jump happen from going from OneLive to starting ClearJet? Tell us a little bit about that story and kind of help bridge that gap.

Yeah, you know, I was always heavily into the helping the retail brands, you know, across all the rights with shipping. Shipping like a thing and I always said I was never gonna get in fulfillment and I was never gonna get shipping. And I'm in both worlds today. Hey, that's what we all say. That's nobody gets into fulfillment on purpose, is my theory. Yeah. I and I just figured someone else could do it better, you know.

And what ended up kind of transpiring was so you know, I met the you know, some of the best leadership and at the big, you know, the UPS Fed I met you know, Coach Joe Gibbs from NASCAR introduced me to Dave Edmonds and Fred Smith. So I flipped, you know, had my classic meeting there in Memphis with FedEx and I built this big partnership with them. And I was like, Look, this is what we're doing for sports and music and they were great.

What I found is fundamentally they don't want aggregate aggregation of rights holders like us. I mean, it essentially created where they had think of it like 2,000 customers they can't call because they already have access to great rates. And so over time, you know, this is like 2013, 2014, when that when I had that those meetings, I had UPS FedEx post office and DHL Express. So I had a pretty good setup for at the time I thought, you know, considering there was no other options. What the biggest problem was everybody every one of our customers was just hearing, my customers want 2-day Prime, Amazon Prime.

And I'm like, and they want it free. And I was like, well, yeah, it's great, but I can't convince UPS and FedEx to deliver anything for free, first. And two, going really fast like that's expensive. You gotta put it on a jet, you know? And so we always found it interesting 'cause then, you know, the what I would educate a lot of the brands was like, well, you gotta have warehouses everywhere. If you really wanna have low you know, low cost, you gotta have it close because of just the cost of transportation.

And that's hard as well, because there's inventory, you gotta have enough products to put them across the warehouses. And so over time, we were at a impasse with the national carriers. And I was like, you know, post office, DeJoy'd come in. They'd cancel a lot of NSAs. It's like everything just kept getting more expensive. It's like kind of the way I think about it. And my brands are like, man, my cons my customers are complaining it's expensive to pay, you know, that much money on checkout and I can't afford I don't make enough margin on my swag to give free shipping.

So it was like torn between two problems. And well, I mean most people heard my story that, you know, UPS gave me an email, 5-day cancellation notice, after I had spent $55 million in 2019, and this was in August and it said literally said in there 'cause account's not profitable enough. And I was like, Oh my gosh. It blew my mind. And first off I didn't realize how insignificant I was if you can't pick up a phone and call me.

And you know, and of course I had to go to my customers and like this is right before peak and it was basically a way for they just hit us you know, they offered a new contract with a 30% rate increase. It was just like it was just a absolute whipping. And what we learned in that was like, wow, you know, it doesn't matter how big your brands are, like, you're not ever in control.

And you know, and it's you know, unless you're like maybe have diversified and you could you know, we weren't we were pretty much using UPS post we weren't using FedEx. We were kinda always toggling between like most warehouses do for tiers, right? And

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that's when I came up with the idea of like at the time I have a really so I had a really strong volume coming out of LA. I was like, man, you know, most of the population is to the east. If I could just get across the country with an airline, then I could find someone to deliver it. You know, and I didn't know regionals the time. I was pretty much kind of the big guys that could take it all.

And so I you know reached out to LaserShip at the time, I reached out to UDS and Lone Star Overnight and they're like, yeah, let's go and we'd love to deliver your packages. And then I was like, okay, now I gotta get it to 'em. And so I started reaching out to the to all the airlines and man it was tough. You know, I was getting no responses. You know, people always like, How did you what was your connection? I didn't have a connection. I just emailed them.

And finally I got a response from United Cargo. And they invited me to their an annual event that was in California and that's where I got to meet the president of the of United Cargo and I basically gave him my pitch, like, hey I this is where I'm at, this is what I've spent with UPS and I think there's a partnership here that should be created. I think the US Airlines are I think the first question I actually asked him was after I told him about it myself was, is there space on your airplanes to do this? And then the second one is why are you guys not in ecommerce?

Those were the two things that just fundamentally I couldn't figure out by just Googling it at the time, right? And and the answer was like, we're not in ecommerce. We've been talking about it for 20 years. We have freight forwarders as our customers and we would love to help you and absolutely, when do you want to start? And so so that's kinda how the beginning started and this was that meeting was in January 2020.

And then we actually got some packages in the air for about a month out of LA to New Jersey and then the pandemic hit and just everything stopped. And then you know, so ClearJet was officially born in May of 2022. So it's like the world kind of came back alive, kick kinda kicked it off, really officially created it outside of OneLive, which at the time this was kind of a pilot of OneLive to try to help our customers.

13:11

Right. Wow. Man, that is incredible. Okay, so now we're up to the point where you prototyped out ClearJet, you kind of had your business thesis and you were starting to make some moves there and really put things together. Let's get down into kind of more of the nitty-gritty on how ClearJet actually works. So when a 3PL prints an actual ClearJet label, how Take us through the process of what it looks like from label printing all the way to end destination delivery.

What does that look like going through the supply chain? Yeah, you know, this is a one of my favorite things about the business that kind of came out of the results of this model where especially at 3PL, you know, when our goal was for you to use any carrier final mile carrier in America at the same time. And you could use your own rates, you could use our rates.

We're care we're final mile carrier agnostic. We what we really wanted to create was the access to an infrastructure that made it easy. And so here's an example of what an advantage for a 3PL looks like. You could print three regional carriers and a national carrier all on the same Gaylord. So you could add you only to dedicate one of your you know chutes to ClearJet. And let's say I would meet retailers and 3PLs say, hey, I wanted to work with these three final mile carriers.

I just don't have room on I don't have enough chutes for 'em, you know and we say look you can we always call it throw us the chaos and we'll make it all work. So put all of them in the same Gaylord. We'll what happens is our trucks are there like your classic today. So you know, think of like a 26-foot box truck that's at your dock door at five o'clock.

He's taking it to the airport. So ClearJet exists in airports. That's the only place where we have facilities. So if you use LA as an example, you pull up to LAX in the actual terminal, and we have our own dock doors that are ClearJet. And inside there, you back up, we pull all the Gaylords off and then we put 'em through our machines. And our machines are splitting them up by carrier, by also city that you're going to, so destination.

So traditionally it's like I'll use an example, let's just say OnTrac New Jersey, Veho, Dallas, DoorDash, you know, Chicago, whatever it is. You know, FedEx, you know, Dallas. And we go to every carrier. We go to we inject in UPS, FedEx and post office and DHL today. So when I say we truly inject to everybody, we literally do across the nation. Now for a 3PL, what's really fantastic about this is we just erased all your zones across America.

You know, we can go into we can take everything into a zone 2, everything to a zone 2, 3, depending on how many packages you're trying to get where. And we do that at a much lower cost than just giving it to your national carrier. It's doing the same distribution with trucks. Wow, that is incredible. So just to kind of recap, one Gaylord process where you can print those labels, pack the boxes, throw it into one box, and then you guys are gonna pick it up, take it to the airport.

That's when the sortation process happens based off of what the destination they're going, what carrier they're gonna end up going through. Everything gets in air, comes down, lands. Is it the same pickup process from trucks coming to a facility or is like the DoorDashes of the world picking it up directly from your airport facility and then taking it final mile to the end customer? That's the last part of the journey I wanna figure out.

Yeah, the great that's great question. So once it lands at the destination airport, ClearJet trucks take it to the final mile carriers facilities to where they put it through their machines for all their drivers. It's interesting because our model would can allow that. You could actually come and pick up from the airport if you want, but what we find a lot are like, Hey, just get it all the way to us where fine first mile first scanned by the regional is from a hub.

They like that. Now we create the whole experience digitally so you get to feel as if it's from door to door. It bakes it in beautifully. You know, a lot of people know about OnTrac Express and Veho models where we are we're connected them together. Same thing with DoorDash. It's where our whole model was to allow it to that they can have a true door to door delivery tracking and not feel like you went to a bunch of different places to go find out where your package is.

But then once they get it, of course it flows to their normal flow. Our goal for the customer retailer or 3PL is to make it feel as natural as if you'd handed it to UPS from the first scan.

18:09

Right. No, that's awesome. Two questions. So I want to know a little bit more about the integration process and how you guys link into a 3PL's warehouse management system. And I also want to know about the rates. So is it like AI rate shopping to try and find the best carrier, fastest, cheapest scenario? Is it kind of a flat rate card based off of size and DIMS?

Tell me a little bit more about that and the integrations and what that looks like to get someone spun up. Yeah, so you kinda have two avenues. We have a we have an API that anyone can connect to. It's very easy, especially now with AI. You can connect and you could have a label printing in you know 20 minutes. Now when it comes to like platforms, we're on a bunch of the platforms.

So think of the Octane products, think of ProShip and Shipium and ShipWise and a lot of the real popular platforms we're a carrier technically on there. Which makes it allow where you could do your classic rate shop. Now remember you have the option to use us for just air middle mile. So you could figure on your side that, you know, the way you think about it, if I'm a 3PL, what I would do is I'd create these concept like a like ghost warehouses and I could put 'em in all the airport locations.

So I'm like if I'm in Dallas, I say I'm gonna put one at Seattle, I'm gonna put one in Chicago and one and what happens is that allows them to print on their own labels at a zone 2. And then we still do our service model, but then you're not even really rate shopping. You're rate shopping your own product on a zone 2 and you're like wow and then you we are we charge on not on distance, it's just on weight and dimensions.

So you can go to any city in America, point to point from city A to city B, you know most I call it you know your biggest cities. Tier 1, Tier 2 are very easy to go point to point without having to stop in the middle. And then once we land, you know, when you think about the rate shop itself, your rate shop's gonna win a lot just by the fact that it felt like it was local.

Now you could put our rates in there as well. You know, like just think of like you know if I was like, hey, you know, I pay a dollar a pound. You could just you could easily say, okay, I have a $4 final mile carrier up in New York and I had a 2-pound package, there's $2, that's now it makes a $6 door-to-door delivery. That got there in two days or less, which is awesome.

We also have a standard product that where it's still air, but that even gives an additional discount. It's something we're rolling out now where it's still going out in a 24-hour cycle, so it might get there in day three instead of day two. But it also has some savings. What we found is that some retailers are not if they're not charging for the two-day on their checkout, but they still want a better product, that's a pretty good option.

21:08

Yeah, no, that makes total sense. Quick kind of sidebar question for you. Are you your customer base, is it more heavy on the brand side of the house and large brands who want to use this service to kind of deliver a heightened customer experience? Or do you guys lean more on the 3PL side of the house and folks actually shipping for these brands? Or is it a combination of both?

Yeah, it's a combination of both. The early adopters were really popular retailer brands that moved a bunch of volume but didn't have a lot of warehouses locations. So they're you know, cross country. But we've been we've had a lot of surge of 3PLs this year, which has been awesome because we really think we serve we think 3PLs have a huge benefit. Not only do we make their product better, we have less you know, if even if you have multiple warehouses, we can help you eliminate some of the multi ships, the you know left on docks all the classic things you hear about that doesn't exist with ClearJet.

If you think about left on dock with a regional use, one of the things that we're helping them eliminate is that let's say they fill up one 53-foot truck, the next one's sitting there for a 24 hour cycle. Now that just evaporates. They everything goes the same day, which helps their service levels with their customer. It also allows, you know, they can technically add more margin because they're they now have actually technically served a much higher speed product.

You know, and they could they decide how they want to toggle those. I mean, we do have 2-day service models, we have 2 to 3-day service models, but it's all it kinda gives all that pricing power to the 3PL.

22:42

Yeah, no, that makes total sense. Obviously the core function of your business is helping to ship to the end consumer. Talk to me a little bit about returns. It has is that part of your project or part of your company? And are people able to utilize your ecosystem for returns management? Yeah, so we're really excited. We're launching returns January. It's been something we've been building for a little while here. What I found that was really interesting about returns was you were pretty much stuck with the your options were UPS, FedEx, the post office or Amazon if you're an Amazon seller.

And the reason is because regionals can't go to your house to pick up, you know, your consolidators couldn't. So you really had to be you have to have local facilities everywhere. I think of Walgreens and post office and so we realize our biggest value is that we're technically everywhere in all the major airports. So we're already close to the return. So they print the label, they can put it in their mailbox or they can take the post office.

And that will be brought to us at a zone 1. And so we have the lowest cost structure you can possibly have on getting from the consumer's house to a facility. And then from there on it's in our network 100%. There's no other third parties. So we're flying, you know, if let's say we're LA, we might have 17 flights going out with returns every day that are going to all these different cities.

And those cities we land in are the retailer or the 3PL's warehouse location. So let's say we land in Indianapolis airport, then our truck is taking it over to the 3PL's building, you know, every day or every other day, depending on the speed they want. The coolest part is we're the fastest returns in America, hands down. Because we fly. Man, that has to be huge for retailers.

I'm just imagining that and being able to deliver right back to the retail store. Oh man, returns get so messy whenever things are stuck in transit for five days, a week, two weeks. It just starts to get so ugly there with the actual returns management process. So that's amazing to hear. I can't wait to see this live in action.

24:47

So to come back to some of the regional carriers that you were talking about before, I know you guys partner with Veho and DoorDash and OnTrac, and you know, and lots more. How should a 3PL think about mixing regional carriers, nationals, and ClearJet? Like how does that ecosystem kind of all come together to work for a 3PL? Yeah, what we can really help is with the logic.

You know, the way I kinda think about it is, you know, every carrier has different areas of the country that they can serve better than the other or like a an injection location is better, one's closer to LAX versus like you gotta go a long way to get to their an injection location. We can help with all that. So you hit our API. Remember, you can print your own labels or you can utilize our labels with those same carriers.

We don't care either way. What is really neat is we have some of our biggest retailers that are in the millions of packages are delivering less than 7% national carrier packages. So 100% of the United States, less than 7% of their volume is by a national carrier. This is unheard of. It's profound. And what that means the way that was even possible was that all these carriers built together in this concept of SuperCarrier we call it.

Allows you to for us we'll help you get your packages to 'em and then they will deliver it at usually next day speeds on most of most regionals. And then on top of that, the nationals will still get the volume that are zip codes that are you know traditionally harder to deliver to. And but you can do it all through our network. And that includes us just handling everything from zone 2 or everything's from zones 5 to 8.

You're in complete control of how you utilize our network.

26:34

Yep, that makes total sense. So I know that you guys just raised, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you're Series B recently, $25 million. You guys are profitable, you're 2.5x-ing every year. What next? So what are you guys going to do with this large injection of cash? I know we just talked about the returns management piece coming out pretty soon. What's on the docket for you guys and where's ClearJet going?

Yeah, so we kind of have a few strong initiatives. Returns is one. We're enhancing our all our sortation centers. We have all this automation machines that are going in every one of the airports. They're hyper fast. They do you know, thousands and thousands of packages an hour. So speed is one of the components of that. We're also launching international next year. So we're gonna you know, if you imagine all the air networks we're on now, these same jets go around the world.

So we'll be opening up, you know, all the westernized, you know, so think of Europe, think of we're already in Canada, Mexico, Australia, Japan, things like that. We're really excited about it because our customers have asked for it. They're like, Look, you're already picking up our volume, you're picking up our returns, you're picking up our international, now we can all do that. It feels like a national carrier model, right?

So we're really excited about that. And then the other initiatives is technology. Our the amount of AI that's running ClearJet is astounding. I you know, I built ClearJet not knowing what was coming, like most people, right? And the amount of you know, we're a 24-hour, seven days a week business. We work every day. We have tons of logistics planners that are they're booking, tracking, problem solving, things like that.

A lot of that is being automated and created digitally. So what you're gonna see with our customers and my and their account, the account customer success people they work with is you can talk to an AI agent and add new lanes, like, hey, I need to get up Seattle, 2,000 pounds a day, I need five o'clock pickup. All that happens without a human talking to you. And it's just because we built the plumbing underneath and now we have the ability to have large language models on top of it that allow you to have a you know, ability to move stuff with like you used to have to you know, on your screen.

Yeah, it's incredible how quickly things are advancing in the AI realm and how I'm sure whenever you started this company in 2022, 2023, you know, the LLM vision wasn't even really laid out yet. And now it's just you can pump stuff out so quickly at such a high level, and it's awesome to hear that you guys are integrating that in such a meaningful manner.

29:27

For 3PL owners and brand owners who are gonna be listening to this, watching this, For them, if they want to, you know, engage you guys, sign up with you guys, learn more, what would be next steps? Who should they get in touch with? Yeah, look, we I would love for anyone that's a 3PL to kick the tires with us. Pick a lane, it's very simple. We'll show you how packages can get from city A to city B, you know, by the next day and just watch the speed and you'll be shocked at the speed to cost ratio.

We do these consolidations in these blue bags and let's say you have ounce based packages, that dollar still counts. You how the question is how many of those can you put in a bag? And if you put hundreds in a bag you end up paying 10 cents a package. It's pretty stunning some of the high volume shippers we have that are paying very small amount of money to move their stuff around the country.

But to get hold of us, if you hit our site, there's a couple two things. There's a contact area where you can actually build your own simulation in your network, it's really neat. You can just put in your address and packages and it'll show you possible air routes and stuff. That's a lot of fun to do. But if you actually just want to to reach out to our success team, get on there, our team, we got some awesome people from the industry.

That are that can walk you through it. Well traditionally we get you know your classic PLD data file. We just give you a mapping of flights, routes, times, SLAs, goals. We have a lot of great case studies what other people are doing and where they're finding value and and here to be helped. That's awesome. And where can people get in touch with you at Chris? Would LinkedIn be the best spot?

Yeah, LinkedIn's the is the easiest place to get a hold of me. Happy to chat with anyone.

31:06

Awesome, man. And last question that I have for you, more on the personal side, you know, being a serial entrepreneur myself and seeing what you've done is just a whole nother level, man. I'm trying to get there one day. What's your drive, man? What keeps you going from great company to great company and taking bigger and bigger swings? Like what's what's driving Chris to keep doing amazing things and swinging for the fences?

Wow, Joe. You know, I inherently I've always enjoyed being able to use the creative side, you know, of I guess in my life and I always thought it was fun trying to create the hard things. You know, historically it was interesting because ClearJet is by far the hardest thing I've ever tried to build. I you know, I it wasn't just relationships, it was it's technology and you know compliance and laws and lots of things.

But you know, I'm a huge fan of founders, founders podcasts, founders type you know, in general I mostly because they're people I can identify with like they're trying to go so do something interesting and I you know my driver is I feel like I could just do a you know I guess a regular day to day job. I guess I technically haven't ever had one. I started so young. But it's just an innate drive really just to build things and what I found is you'll be surprised.

A lot of people are surprised by a lot of the customers I've you know, or partnerships I've created over the years was just by asking. You know, United Airlines happened that way, you know, Beyoncé happened that way, Willie Nelson happened that way. I didn't know anybody. So when people are like, Oh, you know, how'd you get your foot in the door? You have to make your foot go in the door.

And be used to a lot of No one responding to you. You know, call it 99% don't respond and then when it does you try to take you try to take and do something with it. Man, that's fantastic. I really appreciate that. Chris, thank you so much for meeting with me. Really appreciate it. It's been an absolute blast following you and your journey. I was telling my wife before this call that you are on my Mount Rushmore of Austin entrepreneurs.

So it's been a real treat for me to get to sit down and pick your brain today. To close out, my name is Joe Spisak. If anybody needs help finding the right 3PL partners, that's what we do at Fulfill.com. Chris over at ClearJet. Thank you so much. Really appreciate you guys, and thanks so much for your time today. Thanks Joe. Thanks for having us. Had a great time. We'll talk again.

Awesome.